(07-03-2012 01:01 PM)Beardy Wrote:  So...uhhh... what's your point?

That swearing isn't a sin...? It was a direct reply to an old post...? Why aren't you able to make that connection?

(07-03-2012 01:06 PM)CFMM Wrote:  I'm an Atheist, though generally to piss off theists I just say I'm a follower of the Cult of Sobek or something.

I am fine with the existence of religion and I really don't care about it, but I have a problem with religious fundies attempting to use their BS to govern the lives of people unaffiliated with them. Right now it's mostly just an issue of same-sex marriage and religious violence against gays where I live. I'm actually gay myself, so it's a big issue to me. It offends me that people use dated religious agendas to try and tell me what I can and cannot do. They use their perceived guarantee of afterlife (which I don't believe in) to ruin the PRESENT lives of the people around them. It saddens me, really.

I realize not all Christians are the "GOD HATES FAGS" type, and not all Muslims are the kinds of people who'd detonate a car bomb outside of the house of an outspoken member of faith. Not all Atheists are good people, either; Joseph Stalin was one and he wasn't a good guy. Religion when used to oppress and revoke the rights of other humans is a gross misuse of power and control. In an ideal world we wouldn't have religion attempting to lobby itself into legislature; we'd be free to explore the universe that birthed us and advance the standard of living of our collective species.

But maybe that's just me being starry eyed about a way of life I will never see in my lifetime.

"To piss off theists I just say I'm a follower of the Cult of Sobek or something".: goodonebro.jpeg

"Right now it's mostly just an issue of same-sex marriage and religious violence against gays": This is what I was talking about in my previous post against you. These are people who naturally have problems with gays and are using religion as an excuse and aren't truely religious themselves. You can tell because not only does the bible say that gay sex hasn't been a sin since before jesus' death, but also that you shouldn't hate anyone, and that god doesn't hate anyone. They rip the one quote from the bible, ignoring the later parts they say "uhh nevermind those old rules are to strict, its cool now" and use it to fuel there already exsisting hate. Also the first post here may intrest you, made me smile http://themetapicture.com/21-pictures-th...-humanity/

"We'd be free to explore the universe that birthed us and advance the standard of living of our collective species": You are...? Did some christfag honestly walk up to you and say HEY YOU CANT RESEARCH THAT!! ???!! that seemed like a pretty empty statment..FUELED BY YOUR ALREADY EXSISTING HATE!! ...

(07-03-2012 01:06 PM)cingchris Wrote:  For the swearing part yes it is for some like for instance actual swear words "thou shalt not make false oaths" why do you think they call them swear words anyway but all modern swear words aren't swear words like the N-word for example, (although I don't say that very often and only to my group of close friends who know I'm joking) another would be hell, that's a place not a swear. As for the drinking thing and really everything as long as there are no blatant commands not to do it everything in moderation and it's all good.

"thou shalt not make false oaths" means breaking a promise or oath, not saying shit. Though the origin may have been a sin, it's definitly now not a sin, this is an example of how society's morals have been etched into your head, much like how christian morals are etched into society. No side can keep em straight

Edit: Beardy, these non-heated arguments are a great way to learn little things, did you have some more specific thing you wanted to learn about religion that you didn't make to obvious? Maybe you should ask questions then, I (and assuming the rest of us) are able to discuss and answer your questions at the same time. CREATINGTHEULTIMATELEARNINGEXPERIANCE

(07-03-2012 01:28 PM)Skarro Wrote:  Right now it's mostly just an issue of same-sex marriage and religious violence against gays

I'm actually totally with you now.

(07-03-2012 01:27 PM)Beardy Wrote:  So, err... any religious arguments should be confined to PMs, yeah? Otherwise this thread is about learning.

Don't worry we aren't arguing man we are just discussing if we were arguing we'd all be getting pissed at each other. The closest thing to an argument on here is with Arjahm, and that never flourished, so just chill man.

(07-03-2012 01:33 PM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-03-2012 01:28 PM)Skarro Wrote:  Right now it's mostly just an issue of same-sex marriage and religious violence against gays

I'm actually totally with you now.

You used a quote from someone else that I mentioned and made it look like mine...this is exactly what I was talking about with only quoting 1 part to change the idea!..

Edit: BUT I FORGIVE YOU SINCE YOU BOUGHT ME OFF WITH A +1 REP

(07-03-2012 01:51 PM)Skarro Wrote:  

(07-03-2012 01:33 PM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-03-2012 01:28 PM)Skarro Wrote:  Right now it's mostly just an issue of same-sex marriage and religious violence against gays

I'm actually totally with you now.

You used a quote from someone else that I mentioned and made it look like mine...this is exactly what I was talking about with only quoting 1 part to change the idea!..

Edit: BUT I FORGIVE YOU SINCE YOU BOUGHT ME OFF WITH A +1 REP

And I'm guessing the actual subject has nothing to do with us anyway, despite the belligerent talk.

(07-03-2012 01:57 PM)Beardy Wrote:  And I'm guessing the actual subject has nothing to do with us anyway, despite the belligerent talk.

? ...im lost Which subject?[Discussion/religion/samesex?] Who's us[Athiests,the reply'd, gays?] and what specific belligerent talk.?

Well i'm not such a religious guy. (Never really went to church at all actually.) I mean since I grew up in a Christian home, I was taught about God and stuff so I still got that lingering in my mind. Other than that, people can be who ever they like and should do whatever they want. Its your life and you can do whatever you want. Religious rules shouldn't really hold you down because you are your own morality compass.

(07-03-2012 02:02 PM)Mr.Katana Wrote:  Religious rules shouldn't really hold you down because you are your own morality compass.

I bet obeying the rules because fear of hell has at least stopped one pedophile.. ..... ...
Edit: And do you truly believe people should just do whatever they want? or was that just an exaggeration? (honestly wondering if your like anarchist or something)

Anyway, more on topic, I was atheist as a teenager, it was my own discovery in flawed human understanding that pushed me to agnostic [Couple examples off the top of my head: How we simultaneously understand the universe can't really be infinite, yet can't be finite, how we know the universe and time must have had a start, yet then you start to think "but what happened before that start?"] and was pushed from agnostic to christian from personal experiences and others who seemed wiser then anyone else.

(07-03-2012 01:28 PM)Skarro Wrote:  "We'd be free to explore the universe that birthed us and advance the standard of living of our collective species": You are...? Did some christfag honestly walk up to you and say HEY YOU CANT RESEARCH THAT!! ???!! that seemed like a pretty empty statment..FUELED BY YOUR ALREADY EXSISTING HATE!! ...

I said exactly what you said in reply to violence toward gays. I understand the fact that not every Christian wants to put a bullet in the head of every homosexual on the planet. Some do. Some of them are very vocal, and many of them use scriptures as their "proof" as to why it is appropriate to make the lives of gay people miserable. Your point is moot. The only reason the United States does not recognize same-sex marriage is because of the religious shitstorm it would stir up because too many fundies believe this is a "Christian nation" founded on "Christian principles" completely missing the point that the founding fathers of this country established a Deist outlook on life and said themselves that it is critical to keep church OUT of politics. Atheists are not the majority voice in the country. Not just Atheists, but any level-headed member of any faith. They are not the vocal majority. The Christian apologists you posted in that link are a small fraction of a larger group that doesn't feel the same way.

A lesbian couple was gunned down and their bodies dumped in tall grass in Portland, TX recently. Maybe you heard about that in the news. Portland is essentially my backyard, I live literally 10 minutes outside of it. I don't know about you, but to me that's fucking terrifying. It's horrifying to know that as someone who is out in public that this entire time in a town where I've spent large portions of my life I could have been shot and killed at any moment by a bigoted, hateful, worthless sack of shit "doing God's work". That could have been me. That could have been one of my best friends. You do not know that kind of fear and you never will because you are "the societal norm". You will never know the feeling of reading the news, seeing the headline "Same-sex couple found murdered in Portland" and feel that pit form in your gut realizing "wow, this happened where I live to people just like me". That's messed up.

This is what religion does. It makes people live in fear. I have two upcoming shows to perform at anime conventions, one of which is in Corpus Christi, also 10 minutes away from Portland on the opposite side of me. I am an LGBT-friendly comic and that's my persona. I am seriously considering canceling the show because I don't want to be there. I am afraid. Religion makes people who are oppressed live in fear. You believe in God and you wouldn't shoot someone, but you cannot speak for everyone. Those people are out there and now I know all too well that they're as close as home to me.

There are bills and laws working through government as we speak that attempt to dismantle the availability of contraceptives to women, not to mention the political quagmire that is the debate on abortion. It's a mess, and if you look at the most vocal opposition, all of them are people who have a Bible where their head should be.

You take a statement that is meant to be thought about in a rational sense, such as me saying science is being held back by religion; it is, just take a look at the educational backpedaling taking place in Louisiana to have state-funded textbooks sent to Christian schools saying evolution is false and the Loch Ness Monster is real. Judging by the impression you left on me your knee-jerk reaction to that criticism will be "IT'S A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE".

That isn't the problem. If parents want their kids to be taught improperly on purpose that's their business, the problem is these textbooks and supplies are state-funded. That's tax payer money. Ergo, that is government money. That is a clear violation of this notion of "separation of church and state" in the most literal sense. If that school wants bogus books so badly I am sure there is a church willing to shell out money. The problem gets worse when churches are endorsing political canditates (Mitt Romney). This is a stark violation of IRS tax law. Churches can get their tax-exempt status revoked for doing this, but the problem is that the IRS isn't going to pursue that and the churches know it. It would be a massive-scale PR/political/public/religious nightmare.

I am sorry, but for all inclusive purposes religion is a hindrance to humankind and the advancement of certain realms of human health and wellness. You may not like what I have to say, but unfortunately that's the way things are running here. It doesn't matter what I have to say to you about it, at the end of the day you're just going to find one sentence of mine to pull apart and then drop some meme-speak like "christfag" and "goodonebro.jpeg" and trolololol yourself back to the Promised Land. This is exactly why I'm not fond of religious debate.

@CFMM (I ain't quotin' that entire rant): Dude no one here is judging you and saying "GET OUT OF HERE FAG NO ONE LIKES YOU!" but seriously calm down man this is a thread where we would like respect and that respect goes to you too man, don't take your hate for religion out on this thread if you have a problem please keep it to yourself or in the PMs or say it in a respectful manner. Also not trying to be disrespectful, but man you live in Texas that is the religious nutcase of America it doesn't surprise me too much (not saying it's right, also I'm saying the location doesn't surprise me not the act) that a gay couple got gunned down down there, most of the people down there just aren't mentally stable when it comes to religion. (if you want to argue with me do it in the PMs please)

OP says no arguing. I posted my honest thoughts on the matter and was questioned by someone of faith and had them disassembled. If he isn't expecting a response, then I don't know what he wanted. At no point did I disrespect a specific religion, I simply said it should not be used politically.

I'm not going to argue with you about Texas though. This place sucks.

(07-03-2012 03:47 PM)CFMM Wrote:  OP says no arguing. I posted my honest thoughts on the matter and was questioned by someone of faith and had them disassembled. If he isn't expecting a response, then I don't know what he wanted. At no point did I disrespect a specific religion, I simply said it should not be used politically.

I'm not going to argue with you about Texas though. This place sucks.

Yeah I know it's just both of your last posts sounded very angry (or at least to me) not trying to say you can't post just keep it cool from now on please, but anyway I say let bygones be bygones and everyone stop arguing.

Born a Christian/Lutheran and that is what I identify with, though my beliefs tend to encompass little bits of everything. I meditate, do stuff with chakras, and enjoy doing bits of research into every religion or lack thereof.
Even if I don't agree with all the teachings or some of the people involved are general dillweeds, the teachings usually involve some pretty wise, deep stuff that I can learn from.

(07-03-2012 01:06 PM)CFMM Wrote:  .... Not all Atheists are good people, either; Joseph Stalin was one and he wasn't a good guy......

Joesph Stalin wasn't a nice person NOT because he was an athiest, but because he was your tyrant douchebag. Him being Athiest is the same as pointing out that he was also a meat eater. It's pointless to say that because it didn't have any backing reason/motivation behind what he did.

(07-03-2012 01:28 PM)Skarro Wrote:  ...You can tell because not only does the bible say that gay sex hasn't been a sin since before jesus' death, but also that you shouldn't hate anyone, and that god doesn't hate anyone....

I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.

Luke 17:34-35

God kill count: 3 million (not accounting for y'know...wiping out the Earth with a flood etc

Satan: 11

(07-04-2012 12:46 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-03-2012 01:06 PM)CFMM Wrote:  .... Not all Atheists are good people, either; Joseph Stalin was one and he wasn't a good guy......

Joesph Stalin wasn't a nice person NOT because he was an athiest, but because he was your tyrant douchebag. Him being Athiest is the same as pointing out that he was also a meat eater. It's pointless to say that because it didn't have any backing reason/motivation behind what he did.

Eeyup, Joseph Stalin was a tyrant douchebag, but he was also atheist, and that is enough for some. Because obviously two facets of a person are correlated. Obviously.
I see the same thing applied to everyone, so it's not an issue of which group is bad, it's an issue of people everywhere not being as tolerant as they should.