Sexism in games.

[BumblebeeCody]

Oh dear...

(07-10-2012 09:52 AM)CFMM Wrote:  The fact that we have (1"booth babes" is reason enough that there's a certain kind of sexism and "sex sells" mentality with gamers. There's a certain stereotype that they're nerdy Spike-TV watching (who ironically hosts the annual video game "awards") sex-starved foreveralones who just want to oogle at boobies, take some hoverhand photos with the models, and then be entertained with dubstep trailers for new games. Whenever massive consumer-oriented and advertiser-driven outlets cover the dog & pony show that is E3 there is consistently a chapter or segment for "Booth Babes". As bad as it sounds (2 I KNOW people who just drool over Ivy (Soul Calibur) and Cammy (Street Fighter) just because they have skimpy costumes that show off their T&A. That is a marketable demographic, and it happens to be the largest. Unfortunately, that is "the norm".

But you don't really see too much of the opposite. (3 Where's all the chiseled hunky guys? Straight girls play games, and gay guys play games too. You can sit us in front of a wall of tits and you'll get yawns and discussions making fun of boob physics, that's about it.

It's really the consumer/retail market that's bad. (4 Independent studios tend not to put too much emphasis on having sexy women and other cliche cookie cutter inclusions in their games. The kinds of games I check out, I don't generally see too much of it.

@1
Saying "Booth babes" is a type of sexism is laughable. If it was then WHY would females be willing to dress in such attire if they find it sexist?

@2
Yeah and? Cammy and Ivy and hot. But that doesn't stop Cammy from being arguably one of the most poweful character in the game

@3
A small list I know my female friends find hot and "chiseled"
[spoiler]





[/spoiler]

@4
Would love to see where you got these "facts" from.

(07-10-2012 10:15 AM)Beardy Wrote:  Personally, I think there are plenty of impossible male role models in games. Y'know, tough, hardened warriors and that. I think it's telling that they're all wish-fulfillment kind of characters though, if we're honest, firmly aimed at straight dudes.

(1 Are there any women out there who wish they were Ashley from RE4?

Are there any gay dudes out there who wish.... well, there wasn't such a fucking palava over the Mass Effect romance scenes? (as much as I liked Mass Effect... is that really the point? Who you fuck via clumsy dialogue?)

I dunno, I think it's telling that there was such a massive thing made about the women vs tropes thing.

I'm a middle-class, white, straight dude and I'm worried about this stuff.

@1 That's kind of the whole point of a search and rescue. No, I doubt any woman would want to be kidnapped and have a virus planted inside them, but then that's the whole point of being a hostage. I don't get how you can point out Ashley in RE4 who is supposed to be the hostage/victim yet ignore the kickass no-BS attitude of Ada Wong/Jill Valentine/Sherry Birkin/Claire Redfield/Rebecca Chambers and Sheva Alomar.

(07-10-2012 10:20 AM)CFMM Wrote:  I'm into dudes but I have never played a Mass Effect game. I fell behind getting started on ME1, and by the time the hype machine was running at full steam I just started rolling my eyes and ignoring it.

(1 As far as the "warrior" guys you mentioned, yes, that is their purpose. They are wish fulfillment characters and are men in positions designed to appeal to other men, they are not eye candy or fantasy fodder meant to be consumed by other demographics.

edit: That woman who started that Kickstarter project basically stirred up a hornet's nest of trouble and rode it out to a sizeable Kickstarter donation, so I'm not exactly too fond of her. There was a really good "other side rebuttal/explanation" that I read a while ago.

@1
No that comes down to opinion and taste. Samus wasn't designed to be attractive but people ended up finding her attractive regardless. Some male characters are designed to be attractive but end up being so.


Look at the "Who do you fancy thread" and see what females have been noted down. Tifa, Samus, Trip, Jill Valentine, Rebecca Chambers... I get the idea that once a female because attractive it's suddenly part of the sexism in videos games, yet, how many of those females are weak defenseless push-overs?

I think you guys are getting confused with "sexism" and "mis-representation of women".

[Beardy]

Fair enough, dude.

ANYWAY.

I'd like to hear from the ladies of this forum about the basic point (I'm sure you'll agree, CFMM) that there aren't many male video game characters that are hotties without being wish-fulfillment type characters for people like me.

[BumblebeeCody]

Also, yes sex sells, but does that really affect sales figures. If sex was such a dominant factor then why does CoD(a sausage fest) sell millions ever year? Are we taking about millions of closet gamers here?

Link: Females are just a pervy as we are.

[CFMM]

I simply said in the kinds of games I enjoy playing, which normally do not come from the likes of "AAA" studios, there isn't much emphasis on the appearance/attractiveness of characters. As for "booth babes", women who sign up for such roles to be objectified are the same women who would probably be content working at a Hooters.

Also the guys you posted I really can't meet you on, they aren't exactly my type. But that's a personal preference.

(07-10-2012 11:24 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  Also, yes sex sells, but does that really affect sales figures. If sex was such a dominant factor then why does CoD(a sausage fest) sell millions ever year? Are we taking about millions of closet gamers here?

Well there's certainly something "in the closet" with the amount of verbose and rampant homophobia that takes place in that game.

[Beardy]

"WHY would females be willing to dress in such attire if they find it sexist?"

Is that an actual point? Like, a serious argument? Man.

[BumblebeeCody]

(07-10-2012 11:25 AM)CFMM Wrote:  I simply said in the kinds of games I enjoy playing, which normally do not come from the likes of "AAA" studios, there isn't much emphasis on the appearance/attractiveness of characters. As for "booth babes", women who sign up for such roles to be objectified are the same women who would probably be content working at a Hooters.

Also the guys you posted I really can't meet you on, they aren't exactly my type. But that's a personal preference.

(07-10-2012 11:24 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  Also, yes sex sells, but does that really affect sales figures. If sex was such a dominant factor then why does CoD(a sausage fest) sell millions ever year? Are we taking about millions of closet gamers here?

Well there's certainly something "in the closet" with the amount of verbose and rampant homophobia that takes place in that game.

The game itself doesn't really have a scent of homophobia....the fanbase/tardbase...meh. What do you expect?

(07-10-2012 11:27 AM)Beardy Wrote:  "WHY would females be willing to dress in such attire if they find it sexist?"

Is that an actual point? Like, a serious argument? Man.

Yes. It's clearly not sexist if they are willing to partake in it...

[Beardy]

(07-10-2012 11:29 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:25 AM)CFMM Wrote:  I simply said in the kinds of games I enjoy playing, which normally do not come from the likes of "AAA" studios, there isn't much emphasis on the appearance/attractiveness of characters. As for "booth babes", women who sign up for such roles to be objectified are the same women who would probably be content working at a Hooters.

Also the guys you posted I really can't meet you on, they aren't exactly my type. But that's a personal preference.

(07-10-2012 11:24 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  Also, yes sex sells, but does that really affect sales figures. If sex was such a dominant factor then why does CoD(a sausage fest) sell millions ever year? Are we taking about millions of closet gamers here?

Well there's certainly something "in the closet" with the amount of verbose and rampant homophobia that takes place in that game.

The game itself doesn't really have a scent of homophobia....the fanbase/tardbase...meh. What do you expect?

Actually, all the "close military" shit... well.... I have an erection. But I'm saving it for the zombies.

---

Really? REALLY? What's wrong with an ugly woman hero? Or a hot gay dude? Or ANYTHING that's not usual?

[BumblebeeCody]

(07-10-2012 11:33 AM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:29 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:25 AM)CFMM Wrote:  I simply said in the kinds of games I enjoy playing, which normally do not come from the likes of "AAA" studios, there isn't much emphasis on the appearance/attractiveness of characters. As for "booth babes", women who sign up for such roles to be objectified are the same women who would probably be content working at a Hooters.

Also the guys you posted I really can't meet you on, they aren't exactly my type. But that's a personal preference.

(07-10-2012 11:24 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  Also, yes sex sells, but does that really affect sales figures. If sex was such a dominant factor then why does CoD(a sausage fest) sell millions ever year? Are we taking about millions of closet gamers here?

Well there's certainly something "in the closet" with the amount of verbose and rampant homophobia that takes place in that game.

The game itself doesn't really have a scent of homophobia....the fanbase/tardbase...meh. What do you expect?

Actually, all the "close military" shit... well.... I have an erection. But I'm saving it for the zombies.

---

(1 Really? REALLY? What's wrong with an ugly woman hero? Or a hot gay dude? Or ANYTHING that's not usual?

@1
Nothing. It's hard to make an "ugly woman hero" because them being the hero is what makes them attractive. What would you class as an ugly woman hero? What would they have to be to be considered ugly?

[Beardy]

(07-10-2012 11:48 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:33 AM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:29 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:25 AM)CFMM Wrote:  I simply said in the kinds of games I enjoy playing, which normally do not come from the likes of "AAA" studios, there isn't much emphasis on the appearance/attractiveness of characters. As for "booth babes", women who sign up for such roles to be objectified are the same women who would probably be content working at a Hooters.

Also the guys you posted I really can't meet you on, they aren't exactly my type. But that's a personal preference.

(07-10-2012 11:24 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  Also, yes sex sells, but does that really affect sales figures. If sex was such a dominant factor then why does CoD(a sausage fest) sell millions ever year? Are we taking about millions of closet gamers here?

Well there's certainly something "in the closet" with the amount of verbose and rampant homophobia that takes place in that game.

The game itself doesn't really have a scent of homophobia....the fanbase/tardbase...meh. What do you expect?

Actually, all the "close military" shit... well.... I have an erection. But I'm saving it for the zombies.

---

(1 Really? REALLY? What's wrong with an ugly woman hero? Or a hot gay dude? Or ANYTHING that's not usual?

@1
Nothing. It's hard to make an "ugly woman hero" because them being the hero is what makes them attractive. What would you class as an ugly woman hero? What would they have to be to be considered ugly?

Well show me a recent gaming hero that's female. Quick edit - or gay.

[BumblebeeCody]

(07-10-2012 11:57 AM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:48 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:33 AM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:29 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:25 AM)CFMM Wrote:  I simply said in the kinds of games I enjoy playing, which normally do not come from the likes of "AAA" studios, there isn't much emphasis on the appearance/attractiveness of characters. As for "booth babes", women who sign up for such roles to be objectified are the same women who would probably be content working at a Hooters.

Also the guys you posted I really can't meet you on, they aren't exactly my type. But that's a personal preference.


Well there's certainly something "in the closet" with the amount of verbose and rampant homophobia that takes place in that game.

The game itself doesn't really have a scent of homophobia....the fanbase/tardbase...meh. What do you expect?

Actually, all the "close military" shit... well.... I have an erection. But I'm saving it for the zombies.

---

(1 Really? REALLY? What's wrong with an ugly woman hero? Or a hot gay dude? Or ANYTHING that's not usual?

@1
Nothing. It's hard to make an "ugly woman hero" because them being the hero is what makes them attractive. What would you class as an ugly woman hero? What would they have to be to be considered ugly?

Well show me a recent gaming hero that's female. Quick edit - or gay.

[spoiler]



<-this game is entirely based on 8 female fighters only.
[/spoiler]

Make your ME3 character gay.

[PikaPikari]

You guys are so serious about this

As a female, I don't see the physical appearance of characters male or female to be sexist. I see it as advertising to a certain demographic of people.

A "sexy" female in any kind of media usually is one of abnormally skinny legs and hips with big assets and etc. It is for appeal. That is what the designers of games think the typical teenage male mind hopes to see in a "dream girl". I find it funny. Is it an unrealistic image to look up to? Yes. But it's not always a bad thing. I want to look like people such as Katy Perry or Zoey Deschanel- they are my ideal image...but will I ever? NO. Does it make me feel bad? NO. But because they exist...do I find it to be sexist? No of course not! IT'S NOT REAL. When the cameras are off, they don't look all dolled up like that. Same goes for video game females as well, they aren't real and never will be. (I just can't think of any examples).

Now for video game males...you guys are right! A lot of them are pictured as strong, brave, heroic, handsome men. People that women want to stare at and male players wish to be. Why? Practically the same reason. In my opinion, I think it is because the video gaming industry is growing. There are more female gamers than you think and there now needs to be an appeal for them as well. And now, video game designers have to think- what do FEMALES want to see in their games? Now they believe they need to make ripped, hot, strong men in order to grab the attention of this new demographic.

Appeal/Attraction = Way of Marketing = Big Money in the Bank.

Now for actually being "sexist"? It depends, but again, video games are fake. Heck, my friend put me in his sims game...made my career "Cooking", my traits to be emotional, and makes me stay home and play with the family cats all day. I find it hilarious and jokes on the opposite gender shouldn't be taken as offense. Now if we are talking about real life...yes sometimes it can get out of hand for both sexes. ..but that's not what we are talking about here.

It took me a while to find the right words to express all of this so...I hope I did a good job...

[Duago]

(07-10-2012 11:57 AM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:48 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:33 AM)Beardy Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:29 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:  

(07-10-2012 11:25 AM)CFMM Wrote:  I simply said in the kinds of games I enjoy playing, which normally do not come from the likes of "AAA" studios, there isn't much emphasis on the appearance/attractiveness of characters. As for "booth babes", women who sign up for such roles to be objectified are the same women who would probably be content working at a Hooters.

Also the guys you posted I really can't meet you on, they aren't exactly my type. But that's a personal preference.


Well there's certainly something "in the closet" with the amount of verbose and rampant homophobia that takes place in that game.

The game itself doesn't really have a scent of homophobia....the fanbase/tardbase...meh. What do you expect?

Actually, all the "close military" shit... well.... I have an erection. But I'm saving it for the zombies.

---

(1 Really? REALLY? What's wrong with an ugly woman hero? Or a hot gay dude? Or ANYTHING that's not usual?

@1
Nothing. It's hard to make an "ugly woman hero" because them being the hero is what makes them attractive. What would you class as an ugly woman hero? What would they have to be to be considered ugly?

Well show me a recent gaming hero that's female. Quick edit - or gay.

Him and Birdo are totally doing it

---

(07-10-2012 12:24 PM)PikaPikari Wrote:  You guys are so serious about this

As a female, I don't see the physical appearance of characters male or female to be sexist. I see it as advertising to a certain demographic of people.

A "sexy" female in any kind of media usually is one of abnormally skinny legs and hips with big assets and etc. It is for appeal. That is what the designers of games think the typical teenage male mind hopes to see in a "dream girl". I find it funny. Is it an unrealistic image to look up to? Yes. But it's not always a bad thing. I want to look like people such as Katy Perry or Zoey Deschanel- they are my ideal image...but will I ever? NO. Does it make me feel bad? NO. But because they exist...do I find it to be sexist? No of course not! IT'S NOT REAL. When the cameras are off, they don't look all dolled up like that. Same goes for video game females as well, they aren't real and never will be. (I just can't think of any examples).

Now for video game males...you guys are right! A lot of them are pictured as strong, brave, heroic, handsome men. People that women want to stare at and male players wish to be. Why? Practically the same reason. In my opinion, I think it is because the video gaming industry is growing. There are more female gamers than you think and there now needs to be an appeal for them as well. And now, video game designers have to think- what do FEMALES want to see in their games? Now they believe they need to make ripped, hot, strong men in order to grab the attention of this new demographic.

Appeal/Attraction = Way of Marketing = Big Money in the Bank.

Now for actually being "sexist"? It depends, but again, video games are fake. Heck, my friend put me in his sims game...made my career "Cooking", my traits to be emotional, and makes me stay home and play with the family cats all day. I find it hilarious and jokes on the opposite gender shouldn't be taken as offense. Now if we are talking about real life...yes sometimes it can get out of hand for both sexes. ..but that's not what we are talking about here.

It took me a while to find the right words to express all of this so...I hope I did a good job...

Very well stated.

[Skarro]

Wow I wish I never clicked that link... makes me want to rage my eyes out.

@PikaPikari +1

@Duago I lol'd.

[PikaPikari]

Thanks guys

[Sohakmet]

Yes and no? If we put it this way, I think that even if there is sexism in games it shouldn't be something of much a hassle.

I mean, yes, sure, there are some games who try to buy themselves over with sex appeal and all that jazz with all those female characters wearing tiny suits which cover basically nothing and making them go into a fight to the death until someone loses their top part first.

But there are some other games which make that the female characters in it actually have something interesting to look into rather than the gigantic breasts or what else and those are the ones that should really be taken into consideration, it all really boils down into the fact of wether you really are caring about it or not. It will only be there if you care about it. There is no sexism if you jsut say "Meh, whatever, I can see what they're trying to do with this." At least they don' tmake those types of characters completely useless most of the times.

Also, speaking of which, that is also something else. Maybe back in the day, where there weren't many main female characters we would be able to see a lot of examples as how women are treated as teh danzel in distress taht needs their knight in shining armor to help them, but this has been changing for the past couple of years (some good examples would be Mass Effect or any RPG, basically).